Dr. Kali Gross is the Director of the Africana Studies program, and a professor in the Department of History and Politics. She is also the author of Colored Amazons: Crime, Violence, and Black Women in the City of Brotherly Love, 1880-1910. ASK recently met with Dr. Gross to discuss her publication, as well as her involvement with the Africana Studies Program at Drexel.
ASK: How did you decide on writing about the specific subject and historical period [covered in your book]?
KG: In graduate school, I actually team-taught a course in a women’s prison. That was about 1995. One of the things I was trying to do was to bridge my own political ideals and my professional training. We were learning all this really empowering history, but it seemed like it was sort of trapped in “the ivory tower.” So this was our way of connecting with the community and trying to give back.
It was interesting to see the actual numbers of black women there. I was surprised at that. They seemed to be very heavily represented, and that is in contrast to the actual numbers of women in the country. We represent a fairly small number of the overall demographic in the United States, so I was surprised to see that level of representation. In our class—it was a black women’s history course—I expected a disproportionate number, but from commuting back and forth between the front guard building to the classroom, you see female inmates walking about and I thought, “There are a lot of black women here.”
I became interested in that. How long have black women been here? That started me looking into the history of black women’s incarceration, and I realized that in order to do that I had to start with the first penitentiaries, both of which are in Philadelphia. First it was the Walnut Street Jail Penitentiary House, which was the first penitentiary in the entire nation. And after that was the more famous Eastern State Penitentiary, and that opened up in the 19th century. So that’s how I picked the time period and the topic.
ASK: What are your thoughts on the current state of the female prison system and the racial makeup of its inmates?
KG: At the time, when I first started the book, black women were just about half of the inmates (although we account for less than 10% of the national population). I think we represent about 60% now, so that’s actually more than half of all women in prison. I think that’s deplorable, and a real crisis that is unfortunately not studied enough. When I wrote my book, I was hoping that it would begin a dialogue. I’m a historian, so that’s what I do. So history is my contribution to this issue. But I’m really hoping that more and more people will take notice. I think, because the number of men in prison far outstrip women, the bulk of the focus has been on black men in prison. But black women are actually more disproportionately represented than black men. It’s just that the actual numbers are smaller.
I think that there needs to be a lot more done in terms of prevention and thinking very seriously about the causes that lead to these numbers escalating in the way that they are. [S]ome of the changes in the drug laws [especially] have greatly contributed to this disproportionate representation of black women in prison. And that isn’t to say that drug crimes should not be punished, but perhaps we need to rethink the utility of current legislation and the ways these laws are enforced. There are a number of addicts who are in prison, and this is also an area where we would probably be better served with another solution.
I think that there is a lot of groundwork that needs to happen in the communities as well, and that’s also true for the black community. We have to stop glorifying prison in some of the hip-hop culture, and these things are also contributing to this, which needs to change. So I think it’s a combination of things, but overall I’m deeply troubled by it.
ASK: Getting back to your book, where does the title come from?
KG: One of the things that newspapers were writing on [at the time] was that two “colored amazons” beat up and robbed a white man near 21st and Pine [in Philadelphia]. So that was one of the caricatures used to speak about black female criminals. What was interesting was juxtaposing those accounts with the actual criminal arrest, because black women were notorious for this crime called “badger theft”; this is where they would pretend to be prostitutes and basically rob “johns,” but black female criminals mostly targeted white men. When the newspapers [wrote] about these attacks by these “colored amazons” [who] brutalized all these innocent white men, [it was not made clear] that [m]ost of those men were soliciting who they thought were prostitutes, and once the women got them in a compromised position, they usually hit them over the head and ran off with their money. It was an interesting kind of crime to discover, and also the way it was covered, too, was about keeping that [sexual] aspect out of the press. Miscegenation, as it was called, or any sort of interracial sex, was so taboo that this whole caricature [became] a part of urban legend to cover up these acts that were going on. So that was where it came from, and it’s one of those things that I think is sort of interesting and bizarre.
ASK: Why is a “holistic” approach to understanding African American history so crucial?
KG: One of reasons why I became interested in black history and Africana Studies is because a big part of it is about education and illuminating intellectual experience. But the other part of it is to address ongoing social problems that are around issues of race and social injustice. I think that, in the past, it served people to demonstrate the celebratory, heroic aspects of the African American experience because it dispelled negative myths about black people. It was important to resurrect the notion that there were black inventors, black businessmen, at a time when people were alleging that black people were too inferior to learn how to read or write, or think rationally, or become doctors or scientists. It was important, I get that. But, by the same token, we’re now at a point where we focus so much on these celebratory aspects that we’re not producing history—a work that’s able to continue a big part of that legacy, which is addressing ongoing social issues. Crime is one of these issues, a huge issue. Some people may find that it’s not the most noble and celebratory of subjects, but it’s a serious issue. We need to be thinking about ways that scholarship can address this problem: one, to continue to enhance our own understanding of the subject, but also in the hopes that history is supposed to be a beacon for the future. If we can come up with some information that can help arrest this ongoing social problem, it’s going to be invaluable. So I think that the holistic approach is essential for that reason.
ASK: What recognition has your work received since publication?
KG: Since publication, I have received the 2006 Letitia Woods Brown Memorial Prize for the best book in black women’s history. That’s given by the Association of Black Women Historians, so I’m happy about that. Feedback’s been pretty good. I was on NPR talking about the book last summer; that was in August 2006. More recently, I was on the television show “Visions” on ABC, also talking about my work. I’ve done some talks on campus and at the International House and at some universities as well, talking about the project, so I think it’s going pretty well.
ASK: Speaking of your presence on campus, what makes the Africana Studies program enticing to prospective students?
KG: You mean aside from me? [laughs] Actually, the program is starting to really take off. We try to diversify courses that are related to illuminating the African Diaspora, but also courses that are about social justice. We try to come up with things that I think students are interested in, and that are also very much a part of youth culture. A new class that we’ve added has been the Politics of Hip-Hop, and students have been raving about that one. The program was actually featured in Philadelphia Style Magazine. They did this article on University City, and they showed the top five most interesting courses. The Politics of Hip-Hop course was #4, and I was like, “Yes, awesome!”
We have another series of courses called Global Urban Education classes. And these are courses that we do in partnership with local area community agencies. We’ve had one with the Philadelphia International House, we have another with Congreso de Latinos Unidos. If they have a program that involves youth and they want college students to come in and work as mentors, tutors, or volunteers, we construct that into a course. Students will go there and do work and be participant observers, and actually gain experience, learn about the community, and think about these issues of social justice.
These programs are in line with the co-op. If people can’t afford to do the co-op or take off that much time, this is a way for them to still have that participant-observer experience, and get credit for it. We also have it be more of an intellectual experience; they actually have to read and write and do research about it. I think those kinds of opportunities are what make the program really exciting.
ASK: It sounds as if there is a lot going on with Africana Studies, and that you’re very busy. Where do you see your program in the future?
KG: I’m hoping that we become a full-fledged BA soon. I think that, with the numbers of students enrolling in the classes now and the fact that there’s a demand, awareness about the minor has grown tremendously.
I’m also looking forward to maybe having faculty directly affiliated with the program. The other thing that’s starting to limit us now is that most of these new and exciting classes are being taught by folks who are in adjunct positions. We’re fortunate in that, where Drexel is situated (next door to Penn and a bunch of other good institutions), we actually have a wealth of graduate students floating around that are uniquely capable of contributing to the program. With the way the courses are going and with increasing demand, however, we need to start having full-time faculty involved that will allow students to develop relationships and mentorship opportunities.
A big fear that students have is, “What can you do with a BA or a minor in Africana Studies?” I’m a prime example: you can do anything, you can be a professor, you can write a book. [laughs] I’m also hoping to bring in some outside folks who are in healthcare professions and other areas. People think that Africana Studies is this obscure study where nobody will hire you or [you’ll] know what to do [with the degree], but it’s hardly that. So, I think that’s the other hurdle we need to get over. So that’s where I see us going. Getting over that hurdle, expanding into a full BA, and getting more full-time faculty involved.
ASK: Dr. Gross, thank you very much for the interview.
KG: No problem, and thank you.